Panorama des arguments 🇬🇧/dialogue soufi vs Krishna

[alishoune]

DIALOGUE /PANORAMA DES ARGUMENTS

PANORAMAS DES ARGUMENTS C QUOI ?
c'est un concept que j ai imagine où on réunit dans un dialogue entre deux parties tous les arguments présent sur la question .qcela permet de avoir une vie d ensemble synthétique pour le chercheur non avisé et cela permet de ne pas avoir de raccourcis ou manipulztion en abordant seulement un angle de vision. Le document est fait pour bouger et être donné a des experts pour qu il apportent de nouveaux élément jusqu a que le document soit plus ou moins complet.
Donc vous êtes dévot ou soufi ou musulman classique vous pouvez prendre des bouts du débat et commenter .

DEVOT DE KRISHNA ISLAM SOUFI EN ANGLAIS

Intervention
sufi Muslim side
name: ALISHANE
Vaishnava side
Name :ANANTA VAISHNAVA
Name: Tadit kajikistan ISKON vaishnava
Devala ree quora expert
SOUFI Muslim ALISHANE : Salam hi nice to meet thanks for exchange.
ANANTA VAISHNAVA : aribol thanks very much nice to meet you.


1st question .1st Tema: Allah and Krishna (marked with this symbol )
What is the difference between Allah (Muslim's God) and Krishna (Krishna devot's God)?



SOUFI ALISHANE:
ISLAM give importance to the definition of every création.Human Beeing is a human Beeing because of his specific caracteristics . If for example somebody isdescribed having never ate or drunk his wholelife so we conclud he s not a human Beeing but maybe an Angel.A spirit(devil) is a spirit because of his specific caracteristics.
An animal is an animal because of his specific caracteristic . If we describe an animal that fly and we say:" it s a tiger". It s wrong.
A fruit is a fruit because of his specific caracteristic. If something has the taste and appearance of an apple and you say it s a banana it s wrong .
And GOD HAS PARTICULAR CARACTERISTICS

AND THE MOST IMPORTANT IS THAT HE'S

ABSOLUTE !!!!!!!


For a normal human Beeing if you call him by shouting

:"Eh Donkey or dog it's disrespected. And this person will be angry against you."
And for a king if he talks to you and you talk to him by calling him a slave. It s disrespected. For God it's the same but the difference is that this great respect is for the benefit of human beeing (not to be illusioned) but not for God that IS beyond everything.
FOR ISLAM
GOD ' S DÉFINITION IS SUBLIME , TRANSCENDENT , ABSOLUTE SO

-NO FORM,

HE' S BEYOND

-TIME

- SPACE ,

- UNIVERSE

- TIME : BEFORE/AFTER

-,THE BORN ,

-THE DEATH

(dont forget theme Allah and Krishna )


BECAUSE ALL THIS IS RELATIVE AND HE S ABSOLUTE . HE HAS CREATED ALL THIS BUT HE S NOT THIS THINGS AS HE S ABSOLUTE

you take very Care not to disrespect a person by not calling him by an object s name

so how Can you Say that god is a human like Krishna , an éléphant with 8arms or a statue who dance ?

Krishna 's status have change with évolution of time , before he was drawned or sculptured as a black man and now grey blue so that you Can not recognize Krishna if you meet him in Real so how Can you Say that this grey blue form is god ? This draw is even not describing Krishna who looked liked like ancient African with very black skin .Bollywood fan would be disapointed.

ALL THIS FORM COME FROM HUMAN BEEING S FALSIFICATION BECAUSE HINDU HOLY SCRIPTURE WAS NOT PROTECTED

ALL SCRIPTURE WAS OPENED TO BE FALSIFIED UNTIL INVENTION OF PRINTING ARRIVED IN 19TH CENTURY

WE have 300 Ramayana

Many mahabarath ( tamoul mahabarath is not the same as hindi mahabarath)

Indian intellectual romila thapar said original mahabarath ans ramanaya described RAMA AND KRISHNA AS HEROE AND WITH TIME IT CHANGED TO BECOME GODS. it s human Beeing 's invention .

holy Book Baghdavatan we dont know the datation. Some say as neither shankacharia or ramajuna speak about it so it 's a very modern book and not sruti at all.

The puranas was modified centuries After centuries and opened for all sect to write what they want about other sect and to invent all prophety . For example prophety to discredit shankacharya saying a man will come with vedic appearence but non vedic reality is only in bengali puranas so it s Krishna dévot version and not in all puranas like other from the North or south.

Each région and sects have his purana , his ramaya ,his mahabarath and can modified it like they want. IT S A BIG BAZAAR

ANANTA VAISHNAVA
Alright, first of all, in Islam, god has a form, the “highest position in Jannah” is seeing the “face” of Allah. Next, Rāma and Kṛṣṇa are both confirmed as incarnations of Lord Nārāyaṇa. You say that Kṛṣṇa was originally black like an African but people turned him blue. First of all, not all Africans are black. Next, Kṛṣṇa is said to be so black that when he was born in the night, Vasudeva, his father, couldn’t see where he was until he shined his teeth! Also, you say that Rāma and Kṛṣṇa were just heroes and humans elevated their status. In Mahābhārata, it is stated by Īśvara (you might know him as Śiva),


śrī rāma rāma rāmeti rame rāme manorame | sahasranāma tattulyaṁ rāma nāma varānane ||
O Varānanī, by chanting the glorious name of Rāma, one gets the merit of reciting the entire thousand names of Viṣṇu!

As for Kṛṣṇa though, texts such as the Bhagavad Gītā, a part of Mahābhārata clearly show that he is the supreme personality of godhead. For example, he is the only one called Bhagavān. There are numerous mentions of “śrī bhagavān uvāca (the Original Personality of Godhead spoke)” throughout the Gītā as well as the Mahābhārata itself.

Also, you fail to understand the concept of līla, which I get is completely alien to all Islamic Theology. Līla is when the lord takes on conditioned, human, and imperfect qualities for the benefit of mankind so that all may look up to him. Rāma needed the help of monkeys to build a bridge to Laṅkā and Kṛṣṇa would always go around and steal butter during his childhood. Humans cannot relate to him if he displays all his perfect qualities and descends down to the Earth.

Moreover, if you are having trouble on deciding which of the 300 Mahābhāratas are true, read Vyāsa Mahābhārata, called “Jaya”. The same case with Rāmāyaṇa; read Vālmīki Rāmāyaṇa and understand the true aspect of the stories. I agree that there all a lot of Rāmāyaṇas, some in Tamizh and some in Avādhī and some in others and others. These are just retellings of the original in case the people of the area cannot understand the profound Sanskrit of the original, same applies to Mahābhārata.

Sufi Muslim ALISHANE
Thanks for answer . Good exchange inshalah

No coran Say Allah is different from his creature.

Thousand of islamic scholar consensus said when coran talk about Allah s hand or face it s symbolism it s not incarnation . For example Allah siting on his trone in the sky

Scholar said it means his ALL POWER LIKE IRON POWER . NOTHING CAN ESCAPE HIS CONTROL


(dont forget theme Allah and Krishna)

Next, Rāma and Kṛṣṇa are both confirmed as incarnations of Lord Nārāyaṇa. You say that Kṛṣṇa was originally black like an African but people turned him blue. First of all, not all Africans are black. Next, Kṛṣṇa is said to be so black that when he was born in the night, Vasudeva, his father, couldn’t see where he was until he shined his teeth!

Yes so Nowadays Krishna 's draw are very far of reality do you agree?

Also, you say that Rāma and Kṛṣṇa were just heroes and humans elevated their status. In Mahābhārata, it is stated by Īśvara (you might know him as Śiva),

śrī rāma rāma rāmeti rame rāme manorame | sahasranāma tattulyaṁ rāma nāma varānane ||
O Varānanī, by chanting the glorious name of Rāma, one gets the merit of reciting the entire thousand names of Viṣṇu!

As for Kṛṣṇa though, texts such as the Bhagavad Gītā, a part of Mahābhārata clearly show that he is the supreme personality of godhead. For example, he is the only one called Bhagavān. There are numerous mentions of “śrī bhagavān uvāca (the Original Personality of Godhead spoke)” throughout the Gītā as well as the Mahābhārata itself.

You should read about islamic sufism . Sufism Say that

Great soul Can reaching the extinction in god

Like ice melting in the sea.

Sufism beleave that God is manifest himself in every human but the problem is that human ego appropriate to himself god ' s act and quality

So human beeings are spiritualy veiled and blind of their inside divine secret because of their ego “IAM”.

So spiritual path is to transcend this veil

-for atheist

from no belief to faith

-for mass people

From a normal life to a spiritual practising life

-for elite

From ritual to extinction in god

. And great prophets or saints have reached this perfect manifestation so that all their words ,acting or being is from God. They are avatara ( God makes his Beeing falling on their soul and the ICE of their ego melt in god s sea )

And a great prophet or avatar will give this secret to FEW TOP DISCIPLE like Jesus made transfiguration (Jesus spreading a shining light from his face )with only 3 apostles .


It s a secret. Krishna in Baghdava gita talked to how many people ?

Krishna said (1 answer is wrong)

1. Butcher ,taxi , seller ,fishman you thousand people I talk to you I am perfect manifestation of God.

2. O Arjuna I talk only to you because you are my faithful friend ?

Many great Sufi master said this to their top disciple but it s not for mass people because they Can understand things wrongly.

but it doesn't mean they are god in essence. They are perfect manifestation of God 100per cent.

Also, you fail to understand the concept of līla, which I get is completely alien to all Islamic Theology. Līla is when the lord takes on conditioned, human, and imperfect qualities for the benefit of mankind so that all may look up to him. Rāma needed the help of monkeys to build a bridge to Laṅkā and Kṛṣṇa would always go around and steal butter during his childhood. Humans cannot relate to him if he displays all his perfect qualities and descends down to the Earth.

In Islam Mohamed and great saint are perfect manifestation of God and hide this secret for top student only


Moreover, if you are having trouble on deciding which of the 300 Mahābhāratas are true, read Vyāsa Mahābhārata, called “Jaya”. The same case with Rāmāyaṇa; read Vālmīki Rāmāyaṇa and understand the true aspect of the stories. I agree that there all a lot of Rāmāyaṇas, some in Tamizh and some in Avādhī and some in others and others. These are just retellings of the original in case the people of the area cannot understand the profound Sanskrit of the original, same applies to Mahābhārata.

The original sanata darma is pure monotheism with prophet like Rama or Krishna

That are human being (human has different Layer inside from body to soul to spirit to divine secret )

And talk to their top disciple only

,about the fact that they are perfect manifestation of god.

Because for mass people that have many limited people and even silly people you can not say some subtile mystical concept.

So monotheism say for mass people

Allah is one ,without form

Workship him


and make good acts for paradise and dont make sins to avoid hell

Then for spiritual elite the prophet or spiritual have secret but

In essence you can not have only one avatara that is god like Krishna

In essence it's mystical everything is god like a miror of this essence

and nothing is god as the god essence is absolute and has

No Beginning (Krishna was born so he s not god in Essence but he s god because his word ,being , act come from God . It s pure . No place for devil when you hear Krishna you hear god)

No End (Krishna died so he s not god in Essence but he s god because his word ,being , act come from God . It s pure . No place for devil)


No Form (Krishna had a body so he s not god in Essence but he s god because his word ,being , act come from God . It s pure . No place for devil)

No Time ( Krishna lived in earth so he depend in time so he s not god in Essence but he s god because his word ,being , act come from God . It s pure . No place for devil)

No Space no move. (Krishna lived in earth and moved so he s not god in Essence but he s god because his word ,being , act come from God . It s pure . No place for devil)

DIVINE ESSENCE It s an other world.



2th THEME DO SUFI MUSLIM SAY WE CAN BECOME GOD? DUALISM OR NON DUALIST.
with this symbol thema vaishnava dualism or sufi non dualist

Sufi Muslim ALISHANE
In sufism tema vaishnava dualist or sufi non dualist

God and human Beeing is like the puppeteer and puppets

The first is a ice puppet when the puppeteer make it move
He say i move by myself i dont beleave in the puppeteer

The second puppet is
Water puppet

When puppeteer make it moving it Say
I move for the pupperteer i workship him and make things for him

The last puppet is vapor puppet
It say
I dont exist all what i do it s puppeteer make

Sufi call it fana or extinction in god
Melting in god

In hinduism language this man that have reach this level can not rebirth
because he doesnt have an ego
HE doesnt have a soul saying "IAM"
Other people that have a

Beeing beleaving on the illusion of their act

Will stay in samsara

Some in paradise
Other in helltheme vaishnava dualist or sufi non dualist

So the great goal for a dévot is to reach

THE FANA IN GOD (MELTING)

GOING BEYOND THE BEEING
THE NORMAL SOUL

GOING in the suprême paradise called

FIRDAWS THE 7TH FLOOR OF PARADISE

IT S THE PARADIS OF THE FACE OF GOD

it s not like other paradise

People in it Can not rebirth and live IN GOD

THEY ARE PERFECT MANIFESTATION OF GOD

The master choice 3-4 top disciple to give them

Secret

Secret of equality
In reality no Bad no good

And the secret of the master

HE S GOD

BECAUSE HE S THE PERFECT MANIFESTATION OF GOD

and like Jésus transfiguration or theme vaishnava dualist or sufi non dualist

Mohamed transfiguration

The top disciple Say

OH MASTER I HAVE SEEN YOU ONCE
FOR ALL
WITH THIS TRANSFIGURATION

m'y sufi cheikh Saïd

I have seen m'y master only once
(He was with him physically 30years)

[04/09 à 16:22] Alishan Halim: Yes the most important is to Ask

A devot is a spiritual sportman or sportwoman

What is the difference between a top World sportman and a middle level sportman

In sport physically we know it différence between

Pelé maradona or cristiano

With a middle level local soccer player

IS obvious


And in spirituality theme vaishnava dualist or sufi non dualist

What is the difference between a top master and a normal dévot ?

In sufism the difference is

DIGING AND ENTER INSIDE

FROM THE SECOND RUSSIAN DOLL TO THE THIRD

ANd from the THIRD to the fourth

Until you are a PERFECT MANIFESTATION OF GOD

YOU DONT HAVE A BEEING
AN EGO
A "IAM"

THE PUPPET IS JUST THE HAND , THE TOOL OF THE PUPPERTEER
[04/09 à 18:07] Alishan Halim: Sufism has two reality

-charia (the Law) the normal reality to give to mass people

You have free will and you have to make effort to gain the paradise by prays


-the haqiqa secret reality theme vaishnava dualist or sufi non dualist

After a long spiritual path the sufi reach the secret

Everything is a God manifestation

People beleave in their BEEING EGO
Wheter it be making go ACT or sinn Bad acts

Are the same

They are SPIRITUALY VEILED .

in hindu language they will stay in the wheel of existence After paradise or hell.

People who reach their divine secret and dont have a BEEING

stop the rebirth

They go in paradise of the face of ALLAH

ETERNAL ESSENCE

So

Krishna dévot
Muslim
Christian

Are all veiled
Because there IS still IAM DOING THIS TO OBTAIN PARADISE

SUFI PATH make to putt off the veil

And vaishnava s path can put it off?
theme vaishnava dualist or sufi non dualist
VAISHNAVA TADITE TAJIKISTAN ISKON
Hare Krsna, dear alishan Prabhu

I shall try to provide response to make finally proper dialog or conversation.

Let's start from the beginning... The nature of soul: is eternal, sat, eternally a person. That means that soul never disappeares.

The Sufie term "fana" does not mean that soul becomes nothing. Also idea to merge in God is also not complete. To merge in the Lord would mean to become God.

The opinion of Hujveri that the soul may attain "the quality of fire" but never stops its separate existance reflects what Srila Prabhupada explains, the same opinion is in Bhagavad-gita.

The relationship of the tiny spiritual spark (the individual soul) and Krsna (the Lord) is always there, is eternal.theme vaishnava dualist or sufi non dualist

The idea of disappearing or merging is possible due to lack of knowledge of the spiritual reality. Such ideas are present in Buddhism and spread among Mayavadi philosophers.

Sufi Muslim ALISHANE
Thanks
You say
The Sufie term "fana" does not mean that soul becomes nothing.
M'y answer
Not nothing

its the dummy that IS JUST a tool of the puppeteer

You say
Also idea to merge in God is also not complete. To merge in the Lord would mean to become God.

No becoming God theme vaishnava dualist or sufi non dualist
Pupeteer has infinity of dommy
All dummy has one mission to do. Dummy become god IS to do billion mission that God make in one second. Human being Can not
But the Key IS to know that WE are only dummy in puppeteer hand. It s fana.
Veiled person , normal dévot think they have a will so that they want a reward. So they are limited
You Say
The opinion of Hujveri that the soul may attain "the quality of fire" but never stops its separate existance reflects what Srila Prabhupada explains, the same opinion is in Bhagavad-gita.theme vaishnava dualist or sufi non dualist
M'y answer
Top sufi has the GREAT POLE
Junayd baghdadi
Ahmed rifai
Abdel qadir jilani
Abul Hassan shazili
Ibn arabi

Hujwiri is good sufi but not a pôle

Hujwiri Say quality of fire theme vaishnava dualist or sufi non dualist

Its different from prahbupad

Hujwiri say i think when the pièce of wood burn in the fire
It disapear and have quality of the fire

So it's fana

Prahpubad would Say

Pièce of wood never disapear in the fire and Can not have quality of the fire.
Junayd thé sufi pôle (master of hujwiri by 5-6 master separing them in the spiritual chain )

Junaid wrote:

Now that I have known, O Lord

What lies within my heart

In secret, from the world apart

My tongue hath talked with my Adored

So in a manner we

United are, and One

Yet otherwise disunion

In our state eternally

Though my grace profoundtheme vaishnava dualist or sufi non dualist

Deep awe hath hid my face

In wonderous and ecstatic Grace

I feel Thee touch my inmost ground.

https://www.newageislam.com/the-imam-of ... y/d/110485

The state of Fana is represented by RUMI in Book Six of the Mathnawi where he writes:

When the Shaykh (Halláj) said ‘I am God’ and carried it through (to the end), he throttled (vanquished) all the blind (sceptics). When a man's ‘I’ is negated (and eliminated) from existence, then what remains? Consider, O denier.theme vaishnava dualist or sufi non dualist

You Say
The idea of disappearing or merging is possible due to lack of knowledge of the spiritual reality. Such ideas are present in Buddhism and spread among Mayavadi philosophers.

Budhism doesnt beleave in the puppeteer

So it s not the same at all

Budhism IS like atheist transcendantal activity

The principal IS to make the soul empty

And you Can reach some miracle Prodigy

But this Prodigy are not vertical from the sky (God or angel) theme vaishnava dualist or sufi non dualist

But horizontal from the djinn
White spirit (devil) that give you miracle

So budhist Can have lévitation

Or.chinese martial art Can have Prodigy like

Dont feel harm if somebody hit them
Or other

But no link with God

It s devil(white devil) give prodigy.

To sum up

Sufi fana ,dummy pupet disapear in pupetteer
And disapear in one mission only .his mission . He s like the hand in a body of Mr X that know that everything is from Mr X. And make his mission of a hand ( but Can not make mission of the feet or of the eye)

Hindu fana is that dummy become the entire pupetteer and make all the mission
It s like the hand become Mr X and even make all the other members mission (impossible a hand can not walk or see)

Vaishna prapubah is that dummy doesnt disapear and make his mission one mission by himself his ego and so that he will reach a paradise (same as all dévot Muslim
Christian .jew)
It s like the hand make things for Mr X but make by itself . Free will deserve a reward :paradise.

Budhism fana is not linked to pupeteer (atheism) . The hand doesnt beleave in mrX.
So it s to reach some miracle or light from the jinn ( white devil )






TEMA 4 : IS IT POSSIBLE THAT NARADA MUNI IS A DEVIL AS HE S DECRIBED AS LOVER OF QUEREL ?
HE IS THE ORIGIN OF BAGHDAVATANE AND INFLUENCE VYASA THAT KRISNA IS SUPREME GOD.
This tema will be with symbole

Devala ree quora expert
Narada Muni is a divinely realized being, a manasa putra (“mind-born son”) of Brahma as old as this cycle of the universe, empowered with the Bhakti Shakti of Narayana Himself. He has the Siddhi of traveling freely through all the Lokas (worlds), and he wanders about singing the Glory of naranayane.


It is true that he is entertained by quarrels. But all he does is in service of the greater Dharma. Guided by Narayana’s secret council, Narada Muni sometimes talks to people he meets in various Lokas, and tells them things that will cause quarrels between them and others. Narayana uses Narada Muni as a tool in this way to break accumulated tensions into motion and resolve built-up karmas. Narada Muni then gets to stand back and watch the fun unfold as chaos erupts and Narayana, or someone on His behalf, fixes the situation in spectacular fashion. In this way Narada gets to participate in the Lilas of Narayana.

Alishane
But what is the difference with the devil? Even the devil if you go further his acting you Can find good conséquence if research very deeply with mystical understanding?

Ree
The difference is that Narada Muni is a holy being. Sure, you can say that all beings ultimately do the will of the Divine, but in that case you could say that any being in creation is “like the devil”.

How is considered narada muni in Hinduism? Is he like the DEVIL? Because he can travel on earth and time and known as "Kalaha-Priya" 'or the lover of quarrels"?http://www.bhagavatam-katha.com/narada- ... -quarrels/

Narada Muni is a divinely realized being, a manasa putra (“mind-born son”) of Brahma as old as this cycle of the universe, empowered with the Bhakti Shakti of Narayana Himself. He has the Siddhi of traveling freely through all the Lokas (worlds), and he wanders about singing the glories of Narayana.
It is true that he is entertained by quarrels. But all he does is in service of the greater Dharma. Guided by Narayana’s secret council, Narada Muni sometimes talks to people he meets in various Lokas, and tells them things that will cause quarrels between them and others. Narayana uses Narada Muni as a tool in this way to break accumulated tensions into motion and resolve built-up karmas. Narada Muni then gets to stand back and watch the fun unfold as chaos erupts and Narayana, or someone on His behalf, fixes the situation in spectacular fashion. In this way Narada gets to participate in the Lilas of Narayana.
But what is the difference with the devil? Even the devil if you go further his acting you Can find good conséquence if research very deeply with mystical understanding?
The difference is that Narada Muni is a holy being. Sure, you can say that all beings ultimately do the will of the Divine, but in that case you could say that any being in creation is “like the devil”.

Alishane
In islam there is external law to create a civilization and secret law for the mystical Sufi
You can not mix
You keep the secret for you but not
If you are a judge you can not say to a thief OK you stole but the secret wisdom of this is…..So you are free..
Or if a mad man wants to rape your daughter would you say OK there is a secret wisdom?
Or if a satan woman want to make you divorce would you say to your wife oh it s like narada it a quite cool there is a secret wisdom let's divorce
If I am a Sufi judge I tell very strongly that it is a very grave act and condamn the thief to jail and intern I have a mystical understanding just for me that God gives me. God can not laugh to naranda acting like this or it means that Veda law, Islamic law , Jew law based on paradox it s impossible

All the murder outside if there is a mystical wisdom?

That s why Allah said in coran to the shaytane
Get out of there and all that follow will go to hell
But mystically god know that shaytane come from his eternal wisdom to test human beeing
Hinduism had too much influence of the poetry that made competition with troups using holy Scripture and adding fancy understanding
Don't be surprised that rape and evil things increase in India if you count naranda story to children . Don't you think it s bad consequence ?

REE
Narada doesn’t steal, murder, or any such thing. He just sings the praises of Narayana, and sometimes talks to people, only ever telling the truth. It’s true that he has a mischievous streak, but he only stirs up trouble when God has guided him to do so.tema IS NARADA a devil ?

Alishane
But it s exactly like shaytane . A spirit that Can take a human body travelling in Time like he wants. And his name IS the adviser. And shaytane told to adam when making him taking the fruit of the fall

IAM for you a good adviser

And the shaytane in jugement day will leave people he misled like narada saying:

“No no IAM not responsible it s not me. You human Beeing you acted i was just an adviser'
Dont you feel the spirit is like a devil ?

Ree
Wasn’t Shaytane supposedly lying to Adam? Narada doesn’t lie or mislead people. I really don’t feel that Narada is very much like any Abrahamic version of the devil. Incidentally, the Abrahamic devil is not a part of Hinduism.

[Marmhonie]

Un copié/collé éhonté qui est du prosélytisme islamique depuis 2006 !
http://hamzah.over-blog.com/article-4126287.html
L'hindouisme n'a strictement aucun lien avec l'islam qui combat depuis toujours la religion de l'Inde. Gandhi fut assassiné par un musulman pakistanais.

[alishoune]

Oui copie colle d un document que j ai fait et de débats que j ai eu
Tous les noms sont des personnes réels

Pourriez vous y participer et mettre vos arguments au lieu de crier euhhhhhhhhh comme au temps des cavernes ?

L'avantage du panorama des arguments est que où tu as des arguments ou tu dis rien car on peut pas mettre dans le débat euhhhh mensonge
Euhhhhh malautrus .....

Ça passe pas

[Marmhonie]

Connaissant très bien lhindouisme, je refuse de participer à votre prosélytisme soufi. La voie soufi n'a strictement rien à voir.
Par contre elle est noble ! Pourquoi ne pas tout simplement mieux la diffuser partout ? Comme tel, le soufisme a la particularité d’exister aussi bien dans l’Islam sunnite que dans l’Islam chiite. Décrire le soufisme est une tâche redoutable. Comme tout mysticisme, il est avant tout une recherche de Dieu et son expression peut prendre des formes très différentes. J'espère compter sur votre sérieux pour défendre et honorer le soufisme sans le mêler à une religion polythéiste, l'hindouisme.

Tout dialogue ne peut s'étendre & être bien perçu que par la multiplicité des rencontres & des supports. Une fois la claire lumière de la merveille trop ignorée qu'est la voie soufi, alors certes oui, la rencontre avec d'autres religions sera formidable.

[alishoune]

Marhomie a fait un forum avec son propre nom ?

Pour le soufisme le mot soufisme existe pas dans le chiisme ils utilisent le mot irfane mais c est de la philosophie qui est minoritaire dans le monde chiite qui est majoritairement engluée dans le débat de la succession et la haine des 3 premiers califes et de la femme du prophète Aisha (ra).

Le chiisme est presque exactement comme du christianisme ou Ali est une sorte de fils de Dieu et donc il cherche pas eux même a s éteindre en Dieu mais ils sont plus des fan ...de Ali , de Fatima ,Hassan et Hussein .

D'ailleurs pour la spiritualité ils vont vers le soufisme sunnite car ils ont pas grand chose de réel chez eux. Mais même chez eux leur philosophe s inspire du soufi sunnite Ibn arabi qui a pourtant traité le chiisme de secte hétérodoxe.

[Saint Glinglin]

J'espère compter sur votre sérieux pour défendre et honorer le soufisme sans le mêler à une religion polythéiste, l'hindouisme.

Le polythéisme est-il un problème pour un catholique, trinitaire et adorateur des saints ?

[Marmhonie]

La liberté religieuse est vitale dans nos droits de l'homme. Que nous importe ce que croient, en bien comme en mal, les autres. L'important est d'éviter les trolls qui blessent les forums. Lassés de ces propos stupides, les posteurs regardent ailleurs, avec raison.

Je recentre sur le sujet. Il n'y a aucun lien entre l'hindouisme et le soufisme. Du reste, l'hindouisme dépasse l'islam avec l'Inde qui compte désormais plus d'habitants qu'en Chine.