Religions du monde :: forum religion

agecanonix a écrit :Tu peux trouver un cas d'exception de temps en temps, mais les TJ sont les meilleurs parce qu'ils ont le meilleur des rois. Jésus..

Luxus a écrit :"keinlezard"]Ici, il est question d'une nouvelle affaire dans laquelle est directement mise en cause la politique du secret de la WT concernant la pédophilie ...
jusqu'à une fameuse lettre de 2012 où enfin les collège d'anciens pouvaient, à defaut de "devaient" rapporter le crime à la justice du pays ...
Dans le livre des anciens dernière mouture ... en cas de pédophilie : 2 témoins sont nécessaires ... et pas d'obligation de dénoncer le crime pour la congrégation !
Ah bon ? Tu peux apporter une référence s'il te plaît.

Chapitre 5
Comment déterminer si un comité de discipline religieuse doit être constitué

1. Quand une faute grave est portée à leur connaissance, les anciens doivent agir sans tarder, et ce afin de protéger la congrégation et de venir en aide au transgresseur (Jude 4). Si les anciens négligeaient de traiter de telles affaires, cela pourrait entraver l'action de l'esprit saint de Jéhovah sur la congrégation. Ils doivent en premier lieu s'assurer que la faute présumée est avérée et suffisamment grave pour justifier la constitution d'un comité de discipline religieuse.

Transgressions relevant d'un comité de discipline religieuse

En cas d'accusation de viol, il faut faire preuve de discernement et prendre en compte la disposition d'esprit
ainsi que l'état psychologique de la personne qui porte cette accusation, les circonstances qui ont mené au viol
présumé et le temps mis à le signaler.

Abus sexuel sur enfant : Cela inclut les caresses sur les seins, les propositions immorales explicites, le fait de montrer de la pornographie à un enfant,
le voyeurisme, l'exhibitionnisme, etc.

11. On dispose de preuves (établies par au moins deux témoins) que l'accusé a passé, dans des conditions inconvenantes, toute la nuit dans la même
maison avec quelqu'un de l'autre sexe (ou un homosexuel notoire). — Si la situation suscite des interrogations sur le droit biblique de se remarier,

On doit disposer de deux ou trois témoins oculaires, non pas simplement de personnes répétant des propos rapportés (ouï-dire) ; on ne peut prendre
aucune mesure à l'encontre de quelqu'un si l'on ne dispose que d'un témoin. —

38. Si la réalité de la faute n'est pas établie, mais que la situation suscite de sérieux doutes, le
collège chargera deux anciens de vérifier sans tarder les faits. Il se peut par exemple que l'on ne dispose
que d'un témoin. Dans ce cas, ce serait une marque de bonté de la part du témoin d'aller trouver l'accusé en
vue de l'encourager à s'ouvrir lui-même de sa faute aux anciens. Les anciens pourront alors attendre quelques
jours pour laisser à l'accusé le temps d'accomplir cette démarche. (Il n'est pas toujours approprié que le témoin
aille trouver lui-même l'accusé, par exemple s'ils se sont rendus coupables ensemble d'un acte d'immoralité
sexuelle, ou si le témoin a été victime d'un inceste ou d'un viol commis par l'accusé, ou encore s'il
s'agit d'un enfant qui a été victime d'un abus sexuel. Il se peut également que le témoin soit extrêmement timide.)
Que le témoin soit ou non allé le trouver, les deux anciens désignés devront parler à l'accusé des faits
qui lui sont reprochés. — w97 15/8 p. 27.

39. Si l'accusé nie les faits qui lui sont reprochés, les anciens chargés de les vérifier tenteront de convenir
d'un rendez-vous pour le rencontrer en présence de l'accusateur. (Remarque : Si les faits reprochés ont
trait à un abus sexuel sur enfant et si la victime est encore mineure, avant d'envisager une telle rencontre, les
anciens devront prendre contact avec le bureau de la filiale.) Si l'accusateur ou l'accusé refusent de participer à
cet entretien avec les anciens, ou si l'accusé continue de nier les faits qui lui sont reprochés par un seul témoin et
que la réalité de la faute ne soit pas établie, les anciens remettront l'affaire entre les mains de Jéhovah (Deut.
19:15-17 ; 1 Tim. 5:19, 24, 25 ; w95 1/11 p. 28-29). Les anciens chargés de vérifier les faits rédigeront un compte
rendu, le signeront et le placeront dans une enveloppe cachetée, qui sera classée avec les dossiers confidentiels
de la congrégation. Peut-être d'autres éléments de preuve permettant d'établir les faits se révéleront-ils par
la suite.

Elders share the obligation to shepherd the flock. However, they must be careful not to divulge information about personal
matters to unauthorized persons.

Les anciens ont l'obligation de paitre le troupeau ( c'est aussi l'ancien titre du livre des anciens avant 2010 ) Ils doivent être attentif a ne pas divulguer
d'informations d'ordre personnel à des personnes non authorisée.

I. WHAT TO DO IN SPECIFIC CASES
A. Judicial Committee Matters

Que Faire dans des situations spécifiques
A les commités judiciaires

Judicial committees must follow carefully the Society's instructions in carrying out their duties. (Note ksllr pages 66-70;
klilll• pages 160-70.) Anything submitted in writing to the committee by the alleged wrongdoer or by witnesses should be kept in strict
confidence.

Les commité judiciaire doivent suivre strictement les instruction de la Société pour faire leur devoir.

B. Child Abuse
Many states have child abuse reporting laws. When elders receive reports of physical or sexual abuse of a childr they should
contact the Society's Legal Department immediately. Victims of such abuse need to be protected from further danger.--See "If the Worst
Should Happenr" Awake! January 22, 1985r page 8.

B. Abus sur Enfants
Plusieurs états on des lois relatives aux abus sur enfant . Quant les anciens rapport un abus physique ou sexuel sur enfant ils doivent contacter le département légal de la Société Immédiatement. Les victimes d'un tel danger doivent être protégée contre.

April 9, 2012
4. Direction on handling child abuse matters can be found in separate correspondence.
However, we are now pleased to provide consolidated direction on handling other congregation
matters involving legal issues. Please give this information your prayerful consideration.

Les décisions prendre en cas d'abus d'enfant pourront être trouvée dans une correspondance séparée.
Cependant, nous sommes heureux de vous fournir une directions consolité pour gérer les autres choses qui
necessite une gestion légale?

Christian Congregation
of Jehovah’s Witnesses
2821 Route 22, Patterson, NY 12563-2237 Phone: (845) 306-1100
10/1/12-E Us
October 1, 2012
TO ALL BODIES OF ELDERS
Re: Child abuse
Table of Contents
Legal concerns regarding accusations of child abuse ..................................Pars. 3-7
Congregational concerns regarding accusations of child sexual abuse .....Pars. 8-20
Helping victims of child sexual abuse ............................................................Par. 21
Restrictions and privileges .......................................................................Pars. 22-24
Dear Brothers:
1. This letter updates the letters to all bodies of elders regarding child abuse dated March 23,
1992; February 3, 1993; August 1, 1995; March 14, 1997; July 20, 1998; May 24, 2002; April 1,
2004; June 5, 2006; and May 24, 2010. Those letters should be removed from the congregation
permanent file of policy letters and be destroyed. No one should keep originals or copies of any of
those letters.
2. Additionally, much fine direction has been included in the Shepherding textbook.
Thus, elders should first consult the Shepherding textbook and review the Scriptural principles involved.
They should thereafter study the additional points outlined in this letter. As you review this
letter, please note that paragraphs 3-7 set forth legal concerns regarding accusations of child abuse.
Paragraphs 8-20 set forth congregational concerns. This letter should be carefully consulted anytime
a matter involving child abuse arises.
LEGAL CONCERNS REGARDING ACCUSATIONS OF CHILD ABUSE
3. What is child abuse from a legal standpoint? Child abuse includes the sexual or
physical abuse of a minor (a person less than 18 years of age). It would also include the extreme
neglect of a minor by his parent or guardian. Child sexual abuse generally includes sexual intercourse
with a minor; oral or anal sex with a minor; fondling the genitals, breasts, or buttocks of a
minor; voyeurism of a minor; indecent exposure to a minor; soliciting a minor for sexual conduct;
or any kind of involvement with child pornography. Depending on the circumstances of the case, it
may also include “sexting” with a minor. “Sexting” describes the sending of nude photos, seminude
photos, or sexually explicit text messages electronically, such as by phone.
4. Most states have child-abuse reporting laws that, depending on the facts, mandate elders
to report an accusation to the authorities. Thus, when elders learn of an accusation of child
abuse, two elders from their congregation should immediately call the Legal Department for legal
advice. If the individuals involved are in different congregations, each body of elders should arrange
for two of their elders to call the Legal Department. A call should be made even when both persons
involved in sexual misconduct are minors. The elders should not ask an alleged victim, the accused
person, or relatives of the victim or accused to call the Legal Department. The elders should call the
Legal Department even in the following situations:


Re: Child abuse
October 1, 2012
Page 2
 The alleged abuse occurred many years ago.
 The alleged abuse is based on the testimony of only one witness.
 The alleged abuse is believed to be a repressed memory.
 The alleged abuse involved perpetrators or victims who are deceased.
 The alleged abuse is believed to have already been reported to the authorities by someone.
 The alleged perpetrator or victim is no longer a member of the congregation.
 The alleged abuse occurred before the alleged perpetrator or victim was baptized.
 The alleged victim is now an adult.
 The alleged abuse occurred in the past, and you are not certain whether the elders in-volved at the time called the Legal Department for direction.
5. The Legal Department will provide you with legal advice based on the facts and the applicable law. If the individual who is accused of the child abuse is associated with a congregation, please provide the Legal Department with his date of birth and, if applicable, his date of baptism. After a report has been made to the Legal Department, depending on the need, the elders may be directed to contact the Service Department for assistance with questions regarding theocratic or ju-dicial aspects of the case or regarding how to protect children.
6. Two elders should also call the Legal Department regarding any prison inmate who has been accused of child abuse in the past and who is now associating with a congregation, such as by attending congregation meetings held in the prison. This would apply whether he is baptized or not. In some cases, elders may not be authorized to inquire of the offense that an inmate may have committed. But if the elders learn that the alleged offense has to do with child abuse, they should call the Legal Department immediately.
7. If the elders become aware of minors associated with a congregation “sexting” with other minors or of adults “sexting” with minors, the Legal Department should be called immediate-ly. The Legal Department does not need to be called when the elders receive reports of adults (that is, cases in which all parties involved are at least 18 years old) “sexting” one another.
CONGREGATIONAL CONCERNS REGARDING ACCUSATIONS OF CHILD SEXUAL ABUSE
8. What is child molestation from a congregational standpoint? Webster’s Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary defines “pedophilia” as “sexual perversion in which children are the preferred sexual object.” (See “Questions From Readers” in The Watchtower of February 1, 1997, page 29.) Deuteronomy 23:17, 18 condemns such practices as “detestable.” (See the footnotes to verses 17 and 18 in the Reference Bible. Also, see the footnote on page 10 of the October 8, 1993, issue of Awake!) In harmony with these references, we are herein discussing sexual perversion in which children are the object of sexual abuse, including fondling, by an adult. We are not discussing a situation wherein a minor who is a willing participant and who is approaching adulthood has sexual relations with an adult who is a few years older than the minor nor, generally speaking, are we discussing situations in which only minors are involved. Rather, we are referring to situations in which it is established that an adult brother or sister has been guilty of sexually abusing a young child or has been sexually involved with a minor who is approaching adulthood and who was not a willing participant.
Re: Child abuse
October 1, 2012
Page 3
9. As spiritual shepherds, elders should continue to make every effort to protect all in the congregation, especially children, from the unwholesome practices of the world. (Isa. 32:1, 2) One of these is child sexual abuse. We abhor the sexual abuse of children and will not protect any perpe-trator of such repugnant acts from the consequences of his gross sin. (Rom. 12:9) Elders should take seriously their responsibility in this matter so that the congregations will be safeguarded from any valid accusation of neglect in protecting children from sexual abuse.
10. Regardless of whether the law requires the elders to report an accusation to the authori-ties, steps need to be taken to protect children. Elders should help the parents of the children in-volved to understand that they have the primary responsibility for protecting their children. Obvi-ously, such parents will be keenly interested in taking precautions in this regard. Our publications contain helpful information on how parents can protect their children.—w10 11/1 p. 13; w08 10/1 p. 21; g 10/07 pp. 3-11; lr pp. 170-171; g03 2/8 p. 9; g99 4/8 pp. 9, 11; g97 4/8 p. 14; w96 12/1 pp. 13-14; fy pp. 61-62; g93 10/8 pp. 5-13.
11. In addition, the elders should investigate every allegation of child sexual abuse. When elders learn of an accusation, in addition to this letter, they should carefully review the direction outlined in the Shepherding textbook, chapter 12, paragraphs 18-21. However, in evaluating the ev-idence for internal congregational purposes, they must bear in mind the Bible’s clear direction: “No single witness should rise up against a man respecting any error or any sin . . . At the mouth of two witnesses or at the mouth of three witnesses the matter should stand good.” (Deut. 19:15) This re-quirement to consider testimony of two or three witnesses was confirmed by Jesus. (Matt. 18:16) Thus, although they investigate every allegation, the elders are not authorized by the Scriptures to take congregational action unless there is a confession or there are two credible witnesses. However, even though the elders are not authorized to take congregation action when there is only one wit-ness, the elders should remain vigilant with regard to the conduct and activity of the accused. (See paragraph 12 of this letter.) If two persons are witnesses to separate incidents of the same kind of wrongdoing, their testimony can be deemed sufficient to take judicial action. (1 Tim. 5:19, 24, 25) If the person is not repentant over the gross sin, disfellowshipping action would be warranted. If the decision is to reprove, the reproof should be announced. (ks10 chap. 7 par. 20, second bullet) This will serve as a protection for the congregation. Information concerning an individual accused of child molestation, proved or otherwise, should be placed in the congregation confidential file and marked “Do Not Destroy” and kept indefinitely. This includes Notification of Disfellowshipping or Disassociation (S-77) forms on individuals who have been disfellowshipped for child sexual abuse and then later reinstated. Because of the delicate nature of handling a judicial case where an adult sexually abuses a child, please contact your circuit overseer. He will designate an experi-enced elder from your circuit to serve as chairman of the judicial committee.
12. Loving elders should take steps to protect children, especially when a judicial commit-tee determines that the one who has sexually abused a child is repentant and will be allowed to re-main a member of the Christian congregation. The same concern would be shown when one who has sexually abused a child is disfellowshipped, later cleans up his life, and is reinstated. The elders should be especially mindful of the activity of any who are known to have sexually abused a child in the past. They should also ensure that newly-appointed elders are made aware of this caution. It would be appropriate for elders to talk kindly but very frankly to individuals who have manifested a weakness in this regard, strongly cautioning them to refrain from displaying affection for children, to avoid hugging or holding children on their lap, never to be alone with a child (other than their
Re: Child abuse
October 1, 2012
Page 4
own), not to allow children to spend the night in their home, not to work alone in field service (hence, they should always be accompanied by another adult), and not to cultivate friendships with children. This not only serves to protect children but will help to prevent those who have sexually abused a child from putting themselves in the way of temptation, being subjected to an unfounded accusation, or doing things that may cause concern to others in the congregation. (1 Cor. 10:12, 32) If the individual does not follow this direction from the elders, the elders should immediately call the Service Department for assistance.
13. If the individual does not follow the above direction from the elders, or if the el-ders believe he may be a “predator,” the elders should immediately call the Service Depart-ment for assistance. A “predator” is one who clearly lacks self-control and by his actions provides reason to believe he will continue to prey on children. Not every individual who has sexually abused a child in the past is considered a “predator.” The branch office, not the local body of el-ders, determines whether an individual who has sexually abused children in the past will be considered a “predator.” If the branch office determines that an individual will be considered a “predator,” parents with minor children will need to be warned of the danger that exists so that they can protect their children. In such a case, and only after receiving direction and instructions from the Service Department, two elders should be assigned to meet with the parents of minor children in order to provide a warning. At the same time that parents are warned about an individual, it would be appropriate for the elders to inform the individual that parents in the congregation will be discreetly informed.
14. What step should be taken when you learn of an adult who has been viewing child pornography? As stated in paragraph 4 of this letter, two elders should call the Legal Department. After receiving legal direction, the elders will be directed to contact the Service Department for the-ocratic direction.
15. Who is considered a known child molester? The January 1, 1997, Watchtower arti-cle “Let Us Abhor What Is Wicked” mentions on page 29 that a man “known to have been a child molester” does not qualify for privileges in the congregation. The expression “known to have been a child molester” has reference to how such a man is considered in the community and in the Chris-tian congregation. In the eyes of the congregation, an adult “known” to be a former child molester is not “free from accusation” or “irreprehensible,” nor does he have “a fine testimony from people on the outside.” (1 Tim. 3:1-7, 10; 5:22; Titus 1:7) In view of his past, those in the community would not respect him and congregation members might be stumbled over his appointment. Keep in mind that the branch office, not the local body of elders, determines whether one who has sexually abused a child is considered a known child molester.
16. When a known child molester moves to another congregation, the elders should follow the procedure set forth in the Shepherding textbook, chapter 12, paragraph 20. If a known child molester is in prison and is transferred to another facility or is released, it is important to in-form the appropriate congregation of his situation in writing, if it is possible to do so. This direction also applies when one considered a “predator,” as outlined in paragraph 13 of this letter, moves to another congregation.
17. From time to time, local authorities may inform you that a sex offender is living in your area. The notice usually provides the address of the individual and may state the nature of his
Re: Child abuse
October 1, 2012
Page 5
criminal activity. In such a case, the elders should list that address on the appropriate territory card as a “Do Not Call.” Thereafter, two elders can periodically make calls on that address. Following this direction will assist you in protecting the flock.
18. Sexual misconduct involving only minors: What steps should elders take when mi-nors (persons less than 18 years of age) engage in sexual misconduct with one another? As stated in paragraph 4 of this letter, two elders should call the Legal Department even when both persons are minors. Minors who have sexual contact with one another are generally not considered as child mo-lesters by the congregation. However, regardless of the ages of those involved, such misconduct is serious. Elders should be alert to render assistance and to protect children. The body of elders should also arrange for the minor(s) to receive assistance in the presence of their believing parent(s), in harmony with the principles and guidelines found in the Scriptures and in our publications.
19. When baptized minors become involved in “sexting,” the elders must use good judg-ment in determining whether the wrongdoing has escalated to a point warranting judicial action. Helpful information can be found in “Questions From Readers” in the July 15, 2006, issue of The Watchtower. Please review this material carefully before concluding that a baptized minor is guilty of gross uncleanness or “brazen conduct, loose conduct.” (ks10 chap. 5 par. 9) However, if the bap-tized minor has been previously counseled and persists in the wrong course, in most cases, judicial action is taken. Each case must be evaluated on its own merit. If elders have questions regarding a specific case they should contact the Service Department. Also, keep in mind that Christian parents should be included in any discussions the elders have with a minor who may be involved in “sexting.”
20. The potential serious consequences associated with “sexting” underscore the im-portance of Christian parents supervising their children’s use of cellular telephones and other means of electronic communication. Excellent suggestions can be found on pages 6-7 of the November 2009 issue of Awake! (Matt. 24:45) When a minor has been involved in “sexting,” elders can use such excellent material to offer Scriptural counsel and encouragement to both the parents and the child.—1 Pet. 5:2, 3.
HELPING VICTIMS OF CHILD SEXUAL ABUSE
21. Some Christians may become troubled with memories and feelings associated with past child sexual abuse. When an elder is approached by someone concerned or distraught about such memories, he should “speak consolingly.” (1 Thess. 5:14) Elders should manifest an empathet-ic, compassionate, patient, and supportive response to those approaching them about such memo-ries. An elder must never be alone with or become the sole confidant of a sister to whom he is not closely related. Helpful suggestions and guidelines can be found in the Shepherding textbook, chap-ter 4, paragraphs 21-28. The elders should carefully review this material when helping victims of child sexual abuse.
RESTRICTIONS AND PRIVILEGES
22. It cannot be said in every case that one who has sexually abused a child could never qualify for privileges of service in the congregation. However, the elders will certainly want to be very cautious, especially when dealing with one who had repeatedly engaged in this kind of wrongdo-ing or who had been disfellowshipped for such an offense. Before privileges can be extended, such a man must meet the Scriptural qualifications of being “self-controlled” and “irreprehensible.” He must “also have a fine testimony” from individuals inside and outside the congregation. (Titus 1:6-8;
Re: Child abuse
October 1, 2012
Page 6
1 Tim. 3:2, 7) Elders should keep in mind what is stated in the January 1, 1997, Watchtower article “Let Us Abhor What Is Wicked,” page 29, paragraph 2: “Child sexual abuse reveals an unnatural fleshly weakness. Experience has shown that such an adult may well molest other children. True, not every child molester repeats the sin, but many do. And the congregation cannot read hearts to tell who is and who is not liable to molest children again. (Jeremiah 17:9) Hence, Paul’s counsel to Timothy applies with special force in the case of baptized adults who have molested children: ‘Never lay your hands hastily upon any man; neither be a sharer in the sins of others.’ (1 Timothy 5:22).”
23. Hence, privileges of service should never be extended hastily. Considerable time should always pass before one who has sexually abused a child is recommended, if ever. It would be up to the local body of elders to determine whether such a recommendation should be made to the branch office, taking into account all factors in each individual case. Please note that unless spe-cifically approved by the branch office, one who has sexually abused a child should not be used to conduct any meetings held in the congregation or in a prison, and he does not qualify to work on any Kingdom Hall project other than one involving the congregation where he serves as a publisher.
24. If the elders as a body conclude that one who has sexually abused a child in the distant past may now qualify for privileges, they should assign two elders to call the Service Department.
25. In view of the foregoing, each elder should make the following notation next to chap-ter 3, paragraph 20; chapter 5, paragraph 10, second bullet; chapter 7, paragraph 20, second bullet; and chapter 12, paragraph 18, of the Shepherding textbook: “See letter dated October 1, 2012, to all bodies of elders.”
26. It is hoped that the direction provided in this letter will help you brothers in handling matters in the congregation so as to protect children from sexual abuse and, at the same time, bal-ance Bible-based justice and mercy. We also hope this direction will assist you to lovingly help vic-tims of child sexual abuse. May Jehovah’s rich blessing continue to be with you in carrying out your many responsibilities as shepherds of the flock. With this letter we send our warm Christian love and best wishes.
Your brothers,
cc: Traveling overseers
PS to secretary:
This letter should be retained in the congregation permanent file of policy letters. You may wish to update the congregation copy of Index to Letters for Bodies of Elders (S-22) at this time as well.

since1924 a écrit :Si ce témoins de Jéhovah a commis cet acte infame dont il est accusé, le collège centrale doit l'exclure sans autre forme de procés, ça place doit être dans le couloir de la mort.

Maintenant se servir de cette histoire sordide pour salir les témoins de Jéhovah, je trouve ça assez petit, on voit bien que l'auteur n'en a rien à faire de cette malheureuse affaire, cela lui sert juste de prétexte pour cracher son venin.

medico a écrit :"since1924"Si ce témoins de Jéhovah a commis cet acte infame dont il est accusé, le collège centrale doit l'exclure sans autre forme de procés, ça place doit être dans le couloir de la mort.

Maintenant se servir de cette histoire sordide pour salir les témoins de Jéhovah, je trouve ça assez petit, on voit bien que l'auteur n'en a rien à faire de cette malheureuse affaire, cela lui sert juste de prétexte pour cracher son venin.
Tien je te remercie te tes propos qui sont tout à fait pertinents.

medico a écrit :A bon il y que les tj qui ont des problèmes de cette sorte protestants et les évangélistes les Mormons et j'en passe.sont au dessus du lot ?
si tu avais été a Corinthe ou il y eu un cas d'inceste des plus manifeste tu aurais aussi crié haros sur les chrétiens?
(1 Corinthiens 5:1) 5 Oui, on entend parler de fornication chez vous, et d’une fornication telle qu’il n’y en a pas même chez les nations : [ainsi,] un certain [homme] a la femme de [son] père.

agecanonix a écrit : Les TJ sont proportionnellement beaucoup plus purs, en tant que congrégation et peuple, que les autres religions car ils ne tolèrent pas la pratique du péché. Et ceux qui le font sont excommuniés.
Il s'agit de personnes qui ont pris l'habitude des péchés graves.
Par contre un TJ qui commet un tel péché, mais qui le regrette, le confesse et se repend restera dans la congrégation.

Rien de tel dans les autres religions. Un adultère restera catho ou protestant tout en continuant.

C'est une énorme différence..

medico a écrit :Et quand une personne et excommunié pour ce genre de pratiques certains dirons que nous somme trop dure .
Va comprendre .

agecanonix a écrit :Etre TJ c'est être pécheur et le savoir.
C'est aussi tout faire pour l'être de moins en moins.
C'est enfin avoir foi en celui qui a pris sur lui nos péchés.

Si pas de péchés, pas de rédemption, et donc pas de Jésus..

C'est l'enseignement du christianisme..

since1924 a écrit :"Lys d'OR"
or, on s'aperçoit que les tjs sont aussi pécheurs que leurs congénères non tjs, ni plus ni moins !

Ce n'est pas tout à fait exacte il existe des témoins de Jéhovah qui trahissent leur engagement mais ceux qui mettent sincèrement en pratique les conseils biblique, sont bien plus proche de Dieu que les membres d'autres religions.

medico a écrit :C'est le principe qui compte et c'est approprié.
Toi tu aussi fait aurais fait haros sur les chrétiens de Corinthe.
tout comme tu le fais maintenant.
Les époques changent pas le comportement des gens.

agecanonix a écrit :Au contraire..

1) Il n'y a pas de chef religieux chez les TJ... Pas de clergé rémunéré et en place quoi qu'il arrive.
2)Tu trouveras toujours, parmi 8 millions de TJ, quelques cas un peu tordus..mais le fait que vous n'avanciez toujours que les mêmes noms depuis des années maintenant indique justement leur exception.
.

agecanonix a écrit : Au contraire..
Il n'y a pas de chef religieux chez les TJ... Pas de clergé rémunéré et en place quoi qu'il arrive.

agecanonix a écrit : Tu trouveras toujours, parmi 8 millions de TJ, quelques cas un peu tordus..mais le fait que vous n'avanciez toujours que les mêmes noms depuis des années maintenant indique justement leur exception.

agecanonix a écrit : Jésus, en choisissant 12 apôtres a trouvé le moyen d'en choisir un qui le trahirait.... on peut donc penser que parmi les TJ peuvent se glisser d'anciens pédophiles ou des malades qui se déclarent alors qu'ils sont devenus TJ.

agecanonix a écrit : Tu trouverais aussi, si tu cherchais bien autant de cas d'assassins ou d'ancien meurtrier.
Mais l'important n'est pas là... C'est que le peuple des TJ restent pur malgré tout cela grâce aux mesures d'excommunications qui ne varient pas...